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	<title>Comments on: VMware vSphere Generates Insane Amounts of I/O</title>
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	<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/</link>
	<description>The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers</description>
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		<title>By: vijay</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44593</link>
		<dc:creator>vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44593</guid>
		<description>A simple question - perhaps naive sounding...

How many I/O &quot;PORTS&quot; were used to generate this level of I/O activity?

Then one can calculate IO per PORT !

Hyper-V, based on QLogic experiments with Solid State storage indicated about 170,000-180,000 IOPS from Hyper-V using a single 8Gb Fibre Channel HBA port.

Ergo, about 2 HBA ports would deliver 340,000 IOPS.

How many such 8Gb FC ports would VMware need ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simple question &#8211; perhaps naive sounding&#8230;</p>
<p>How many I/O &#8220;PORTS&#8221; were used to generate this level of I/O activity?</p>
<p>Then one can calculate IO per PORT !</p>
<p>Hyper-V, based on QLogic experiments with Solid State storage indicated about 170,000-180,000 IOPS from Hyper-V using a single 8Gb Fibre Channel HBA port.</p>
<p>Ergo, about 2 HBA ports would deliver 340,000 IOPS.</p>
<p>How many such 8Gb FC ports would VMware need ?</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Sakac</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44523</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Sakac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44523</guid>
		<description>@TimC - I hear you - but remember the goal of this exercise was &quot;how fast can it go&quot;.   We had the same feedback last time: &quot;this isn&#039;t a real world test&quot; - no guff.    The idea of running that type of load on a single vSphere ESX host won&#039;t happen anywhere - it&#039;s an insane configuration.

The goal is simple - by showing upper limits - we can change the question from &quot;what can I virtualize&quot; to &quot;what CAN&#039;T I  virtualize&quot;, and then move to &quot;ok, what&#039;s a reasonable way to move forward and be as successful, low risk, as low cost, and efficient as possible&quot;.   BTW - guys, EFDs are very real.  We&#039;ve sold out for 4 consecutive quarters now - we can&#039;t literally meet the demand fast enough.   Every customer has workloads that are gated by performance, not just capacity.

We ALSO produce a TON of content that are real-world configurations, real world workloads (often with side-by-side with physical, and the same platform, so you can do a direct comparison).

For example, in the last 24 hrs:

http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/integrated-vsphere-enterprise-workloads-all-together-at-scale.html

http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/more-on-exchange-on-vsphere-including-ft.html

@Scott:

You&#039;re 100% right.  The other &quot;app on VMware&quot; crime is the same one that happens in the physical world - talking in GB in configurations, when it&#039;s about GB/MBps/IOPs/ms.  Often - the VMware administrator only &quot;sees&quot; GB (I mean &quot;capacity&quot;), and therefore has no idea about the other factors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TimC &#8211; I hear you &#8211; but remember the goal of this exercise was &#8220;how fast can it go&#8221;.   We had the same feedback last time: &#8220;this isn&#8217;t a real world test&#8221; &#8211; no guff.    The idea of running that type of load on a single vSphere ESX host won&#8217;t happen anywhere &#8211; it&#8217;s an insane configuration.</p>
<p>The goal is simple &#8211; by showing upper limits &#8211; we can change the question from &#8220;what can I virtualize&#8221; to &#8220;what CAN&#8217;T I  virtualize&#8221;, and then move to &#8220;ok, what&#8217;s a reasonable way to move forward and be as successful, low risk, as low cost, and efficient as possible&#8221;.   BTW &#8211; guys, EFDs are very real.  We&#8217;ve sold out for 4 consecutive quarters now &#8211; we can&#8217;t literally meet the demand fast enough.   Every customer has workloads that are gated by performance, not just capacity.</p>
<p>We ALSO produce a TON of content that are real-world configurations, real world workloads (often with side-by-side with physical, and the same platform, so you can do a direct comparison).</p>
<p>For example, in the last 24 hrs:</p>
<p><a href="http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/integrated-vsphere-enterprise-workloads-all-together-at-scale.html" rel="nofollow">http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/integrated-vsphere-enterprise-workloads-all-together-at-scale.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/more-on-exchange-on-vsphere-including-ft.html" rel="nofollow">http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/05/more-on-exchange-on-vsphere-including-ft.html</a></p>
<p>@Scott:</p>
<p>You&#8217;re 100% right.  The other &#8220;app on VMware&#8221; crime is the same one that happens in the physical world &#8211; talking in GB in configurations, when it&#8217;s about GB/MBps/IOPs/ms.  Often &#8211; the VMware administrator only &#8220;sees&#8221; GB (I mean &#8220;capacity&#8221;), and therefore has no idea about the other factors.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy Sneeden</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44520</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy Sneeden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44520</guid>
		<description>Scott, et.al.,

I believe the point of the effort from VMware and EMC was to show that VMware CAN handle incredible amounts of I/O without falling down.  There are a very few organizations that will generate that amount of I/O with 1 host and 3 guests.

I believe TimC is correct in that EFDs are atypical, however, media is not relevant to the objective of this specific test.

Scott, you make a good point regarding storage and volume types.  I think what is often a &quot;lost art&quot; in virtualizaiton efforts (and non-virtualization SAN deployments) is the carving and provisioning of the storage.

Just because you have a NetApp, EMC, Lefthand or IBM SAN doesn&#039;t automatically make your storage optimal.  Storage tuning is something that takes time and effort and planning that most clients and a good number of &quot;engineers/consultants&quot; just don&#039;t do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, et.al.,</p>
<p>I believe the point of the effort from VMware and EMC was to show that VMware CAN handle incredible amounts of I/O without falling down.  There are a very few organizations that will generate that amount of I/O with 1 host and 3 guests.</p>
<p>I believe TimC is correct in that EFDs are atypical, however, media is not relevant to the objective of this specific test.</p>
<p>Scott, you make a good point regarding storage and volume types.  I think what is often a &#8220;lost art&#8221; in virtualizaiton efforts (and non-virtualization SAN deployments) is the carving and provisioning of the storage.</p>
<p>Just because you have a NetApp, EMC, Lefthand or IBM SAN doesn&#8217;t automatically make your storage optimal.  Storage tuning is something that takes time and effort and planning that most clients and a good number of &#8220;engineers/consultants&#8221; just don&#8217;t do.</p>
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		<title>By: Rynardt Spies</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44516</link>
		<dc:creator>Rynardt Spies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 10:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44516</guid>
		<description>&quot;...if you wouldn’t run that database on a 5-disk RAID-5 set when it’s physical, you shouldn’t run that database on a VMFS datastore sitting on a 5-disk RAID-5 set after it’s been virtualized. Just because it’s virtualized doesn’t mean the underlying disk I/O requirements magically change.&quot;

Very well said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;if you wouldn’t run that database on a 5-disk RAID-5 set when it’s physical, you shouldn’t run that database on a VMFS datastore sitting on a 5-disk RAID-5 set after it’s been virtualized. Just because it’s virtualized doesn’t mean the underlying disk I/O requirements magically change.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very well said!</p>
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		<title>By: Dejan Ilic</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44512</link>
		<dc:creator>Dejan Ilic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 06:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44512</guid>
		<description>I agree with both of you in a sence.
What I would like to see is the &quot;cost&quot; of virtualizing, that is comparation of the same workload on pure hardware and running in the virtualized envirovment. That way I would estimate the probable results in my own datacenter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with both of you in a sence.<br />
What I would like to see is the &#8220;cost&#8221; of virtualizing, that is comparation of the same workload on pure hardware and running in the virtualized envirovment. That way I would estimate the probable results in my own datacenter.</p>
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		<title>By: ckumar</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44509</link>
		<dc:creator>ckumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 03:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44509</guid>
		<description>TimC,

There are case studies where application performance  on virtual platform is within 85 to 90% of native. In some cases, aggregate performance from virtual machines on a single host beats the aggregate performance on the same hardware on native.

Checkout the following links for more details:
http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/04/d.html
http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/02/vmware-sets-performance-record-with-specweb2005-result.html 
http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/16000-exchange.html

Some of these applications do require high I/O bandwidth (link# 1). vSphere can comfortably handle that and do much more as shown above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TimC,</p>
<p>There are case studies where application performance  on virtual platform is within 85 to 90% of native. In some cases, aggregate performance from virtual machines on a single host beats the aggregate performance on the same hardware on native.</p>
<p>Checkout the following links for more details:<br />
<a href="http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/04/d.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/04/d.html</a><br />
<a href="http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/02/vmware-sets-performance-record-with-specweb2005-result.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2009/02/vmware-sets-performance-record-with-specweb2005-result.html</a><br />
<a href="http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/16000-exchange.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.vmware.com/performance/2008/02/16000-exchange.html</a></p>
<p>Some of these applications do require high I/O bandwidth (link# 1). vSphere can comfortably handle that and do much more as shown above.</p>
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		<title>By: slowe</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44508</link>
		<dc:creator>slowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44508</guid>
		<description>TimC,

I do agree with you that using EFDs to back a VMware installation is nothing like your typical setup. If someone were to create a &quot;workload X on raw hardware vs. workload X in VMware&quot;, we&#039;d have to be careful to make sure that it is an apples-to-apples comparison. Like I said in my recent Virtualization Congress presentation, if you wouldn&#039;t run that database on a 5-disk RAID-5 set when it&#039;s physical, you shouldn&#039;t run that database on a VMFS datastore sitting on a 5-disk RAID-5 set after it&#039;s been virtualized. Just because it&#039;s virtualized doesn&#039;t mean the underlying disk I/O requirements magically change.

Personally, I believe that is the key reason why people think &quot;it can&#039;t push I/O.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TimC,</p>
<p>I do agree with you that using EFDs to back a VMware installation is nothing like your typical setup. If someone were to create a &#8220;workload X on raw hardware vs. workload X in VMware&#8221;, we&#8217;d have to be careful to make sure that it is an apples-to-apples comparison. Like I said in my recent Virtualization Congress presentation, if you wouldn&#8217;t run that database on a 5-disk RAID-5 set when it&#8217;s physical, you shouldn&#8217;t run that database on a VMFS datastore sitting on a 5-disk RAID-5 set after it&#8217;s been virtualized. Just because it&#8217;s virtualized doesn&#8217;t mean the underlying disk I/O requirements magically change.</p>
<p>Personally, I believe that is the key reason why people think &#8220;it can&#8217;t push I/O.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: TimC</title>
		<link>http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/comment-page-1/#comment-44506</link>
		<dc:creator>TimC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 01:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/05/18/vmware-vsphere-generates-insane-amounts-of-io/#comment-44506</guid>
		<description>Those numbers prove nothing though, they&#039;re in a bubble and insignificant as far as I&#039;m concerned.  

Show me workload X on raw hardware vs. workload X in VMware, using a typical setup consisting of FC drives (no EMC, I&#039;m sorry, as much as you proclaim otherwise, flash drives to back a VMware farm is nothing remotely resembling a typical setup).  The reason people say &quot;it can&#039;t push I/O&quot; is because of the overhead vs. raw hardware, not because they literally think VMware can&#039;t generate I/O.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those numbers prove nothing though, they&#8217;re in a bubble and insignificant as far as I&#8217;m concerned.  </p>
<p>Show me workload X on raw hardware vs. workload X in VMware, using a typical setup consisting of FC drives (no EMC, I&#8217;m sorry, as much as you proclaim otherwise, flash drives to back a VMware farm is nothing remotely resembling a typical setup).  The reason people say &#8220;it can&#8217;t push I/O&#8221; is because of the overhead vs. raw hardware, not because they literally think VMware can&#8217;t generate I/O.</p>
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