Comments on: This Pretty Much Answers That Question http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/ The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:46:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: A Collection of Viewpoints on Cisco UCS - blog.scottlowe.org - The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-44095 A Collection of Viewpoints on Cisco UCS - blog.scottlowe.org - The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:02:33 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-44095 [...] seems to validate the strategy outlined by Sun and sheds new light—for me, at least—on the potential motivations for IBM to acquire [...] [...] seems to validate the strategy outlined by Sun and sheds new light—for me, at least—on the potential motivations for IBM to acquire [...]

]]> By: Nate http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43852 Nate Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:28:27 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43852 Yes commodity hardware is good nowadays, but is it really ASIC good? While many server folks would probably be ready to accept commodity server hardware as sufficient, I have to believe networking folks won't cozy up to the idea as quickly. My guess would be that commodity hardware might get you through on some networks, but as networks evolve and demands increase will they be able to keep up? The current move is to 10gig. Juniper is already building their gear to support 100gig. Will Sun really be able to keep up at those speeds all in software? I have to agree with Dmitry a little bit that it does seem like a time warp idea. Granted the clarification that it is vendor built and supported commodity gear and open source software, we are still talking about the same idea. I guess Microsoft is putting thin client mentality back into 2008 R2 with Remote Desktop Services though, so maybe we are just in that ripe time to reinvent old ideas. Like you said they may fly or flop. It's pretty hard to tell what is going to happen now with things like cloud computing ramping up and Microsoft redefining the corpnet and pushing things up the stack with IPv6, IPsec, and isolation. Yes commodity hardware is good nowadays, but is it really ASIC good? While many server folks would probably be ready to accept commodity server hardware as sufficient, I have to believe networking folks won’t cozy up to the idea as quickly. My guess would be that commodity hardware might get you through on some networks, but as networks evolve and demands increase will they be able to keep up? The current move is to 10gig. Juniper is already building their gear to support 100gig. Will Sun really be able to keep up at those speeds all in software?

I have to agree with Dmitry a little bit that it does seem like a time warp idea. Granted the clarification that it is vendor built and supported commodity gear and open source software, we are still talking about the same idea. I guess Microsoft is putting thin client mentality back into 2008 R2 with Remote Desktop Services though, so maybe we are just in that ripe time to reinvent old ideas. Like you said they may fly or flop. It’s pretty hard to tell what is going to happen now with things like cloud computing ramping up and Microsoft redefining the corpnet and pushing things up the stack with IPv6, IPsec, and isolation.

]]> By: Marc Richards http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43850 Marc Richards Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:46:06 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43850 Dimitry, They absolutely plan on building an appliance. That is exactly <a href="http://www.sun.com/storage/disk_systems/unified_storage/" rel="nofollow">what they did with storage</a>. Don't count out the "enthusiasts innovators" either. I am sure there will be a couple startups out there who take the technology and do interesting things with it that Sun didn't plan on doing...but that is good for Sun too. It creates disruption at the lower end of the market and it makes it easy to cherry pick good ideas down the road. What better way to enter a new market segment than to acquire some startup that uses all your technology? Dimitry,

They absolutely plan on building an appliance. That is exactly what they did with storage.

Don’t count out the “enthusiasts innovators” either. I am sure there will be a couple startups out there who take the technology and do interesting things with it that Sun didn’t plan on doing…but that is good for Sun too. It creates disruption at the lower end of the market and it makes it easy to cherry pick good ideas down the road. What better way to enter a new market segment than to acquire some startup that uses all your technology?

]]> By: As Cisco invades server market, Sun prepares networking counterstrike - The Network Hub http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43845 As Cisco invades server market, Sun prepares networking counterstrike - The Network Hub Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:08:23 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43845 [...] Scott Lowe points out that Sun Microsystems is hinting at plans to compete directly with Cisco in the networking market. He notes that a new blog entry by Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz pretty much [...] [...] Scott Lowe points out that Sun Microsystems is hinting at plans to compete directly with Cisco in the networking market. He notes that a new blog entry by Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz pretty much [...]

]]> By: slowe http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43844 slowe Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:06:48 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43844 Dmitry, Who said anything about people building these things themselves? The only thing we've said is that Sun is aiming to build networking equipment from commodity equipment using open source software--that doesn't mean it won't be a fully supported, pre-configured type of solution. Clearly, if Sun does this right, it will be pre-configured, easy to use, well documented, but very FLEXIBLE. If Sun does it wrong--and this is a very real possibility--then it will be poorly integrated, and your original question is very relevant: why? No one will bother, and Sun will fail miserably. It all falls on Sun's ability to follow through and execute on the business plan. Dmitry,

Who said anything about people building these things themselves? The only thing we’ve said is that Sun is aiming to build networking equipment from commodity equipment using open source software–that doesn’t mean it won’t be a fully supported, pre-configured type of solution.

Clearly, if Sun does this right, it will be pre-configured, easy to use, well documented, but very FLEXIBLE. If Sun does it wrong–and this is a very real possibility–then it will be poorly integrated, and your original question is very relevant: why? No one will bother, and Sun will fail miserably.

It all falls on Sun’s ability to follow through and execute on the business plan.

]]> By: Dmitry http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43843 Dmitry Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:25:54 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43843 Remeber, back in the days, that's exctly what people were doing - building routers and firewalls from commodity hardware, old servers, even workstations. Then Cisco came with an APPLIANCE and won the market. Same thing happened win NAS - NetApp won NAS marked introducing an APPLIANCE. So why enterprises will go 20 years back and start building routers and firewalls themselves from commodity hardware, instead of buying an APPLIANCE. The cost of the hardware is NOT the TCO as we kow, but just a portion of it (sometimes even smaller that support, maintenance, management, etc)? I'm with Christofer Hoff on the point that Cisco is after Unified Data Center, where integration is the key. Sun, on the other hand, is after students, hobbysts , enthusiasts innovators that have free access to open source OpenSolaris and can build something usefull out of it, so then Sun can sell them support and probably their hardware (as Sun can clain it is optimized for their software best of all). It reminds me RedHat model, but somewhat enhanced. Remeber, back in the days, that’s exctly what people were doing - building routers and firewalls from commodity hardware, old servers, even workstations. Then Cisco came with an APPLIANCE and won the market. Same thing happened win NAS - NetApp won NAS marked introducing an APPLIANCE. So why enterprises will go 20 years back and start building routers and firewalls themselves from commodity hardware, instead of buying an APPLIANCE. The cost of the hardware is NOT the TCO as we kow, but just a portion of it (sometimes even smaller that support, maintenance, management, etc)?
I’m with Christofer Hoff on the point that Cisco is after Unified Data Center, where integration is the key.
Sun, on the other hand, is after students, hobbysts , enthusiasts innovators that have free access to open source OpenSolaris and can build something usefull out of it, so then Sun can sell them support and probably their hardware (as Sun can clain it is optimized for their software best of all). It reminds me RedHat model, but somewhat enhanced.

]]> By: Taylor Allis http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43840 Taylor Allis Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:12:09 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43840 Sun's core assets have always been Solaris, processors, servers and the software that goes with it. Sun is not targeting Cisco directly per se - but what they call the entire "proprietary" IT world. Just as their world was disrupted by open software newcomer Linux and commodity processors; they now seek to disrupt markets with their version of open source software and commodity hardware. They aim to make routers, network devices, storage RAID arrays and controllers, etc. out of their OS and commodity hardware (processors, JBOD, SSD, etc.) One general purpose OS platform that can be re-swizzled a million different ways. Sun's challenge will not be their technology or innovation - they have that in spades. It will be reining in their broad focus and general business acumen (partnership management, solid fiscal management, sales, marketing, distribution, etc.) Cisco may not have near the systems IP or portfolio as Sun, but what they do have is focus and business acumen... Sun’s core assets have always been Solaris, processors, servers and the software that goes with it. Sun is not targeting Cisco directly per se - but what they call the entire “proprietary” IT world.

Just as their world was disrupted by open software newcomer Linux and commodity processors; they now seek to disrupt markets with their version of open source software and commodity hardware.

They aim to make routers, network devices, storage RAID arrays and controllers, etc. out of their OS and commodity hardware (processors, JBOD, SSD, etc.)

One general purpose OS platform that can be re-swizzled a million different ways.

Sun’s challenge will not be their technology or innovation - they have that in spades. It will be reining in their broad focus and general business acumen (partnership management, solid fiscal management, sales, marketing, distribution, etc.)

Cisco may not have near the systems IP or portfolio as Sun, but what they do have is focus and business acumen…

]]> By: Daniel Reznicek http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/comment-page-1/#comment-43839 Daniel Reznicek Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:11:31 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2009/03/12/this-pretty-much-answers-that-question/#comment-43839 It would appear that "the cloud" is getting thicker. Redundancy and parallel processing by having the cloud model of many lower cost devices that re-route or takeover on failures is finally coming to fruition. The days of "routers route" and "servers serve" is blurring at break neck speed. Finally. I find it amazing that marketing convinces the masses that you have to have an appliance X that does Y when appliance X is clearly repurposed older technology with a nice looking cover. In many cases, I can buy at least 10 appliance X "innards" and build my own with Open Source or more affordable alternatives. I just have to do my diligence. Its not always a 1 to 1 feature set, but it will get me where I need to go 80% of the time. Sounds like Sun is painting that picture for us. If the architecture is built so that failures are mitigated by having services picked up by many different capable devices that don't care if that service is a fileserver, a router, a whatever, you really have to ask yourself why the masses will keep buying the pretty box? It would appear that “the cloud” is getting thicker. Redundancy and parallel processing by having the cloud model of many lower cost devices that re-route or takeover on failures is finally coming to fruition. The days of “routers route” and “servers serve” is blurring at break neck speed. Finally.

I find it amazing that marketing convinces the masses that you have to have an appliance X that does Y when appliance X is clearly repurposed older technology with a nice looking cover. In many cases, I can buy at least 10 appliance X “innards” and build my own with Open Source or more affordable alternatives. I just have to do my diligence. Its not always a 1 to 1 feature set, but it will get me where I need to go 80% of the time. Sounds like Sun is painting that picture for us.

If the architecture is built so that failures are mitigated by having services picked up by many different capable devices that don’t care if that service is a fileserver, a router, a whatever, you really have to ask yourself why the masses will keep buying the pretty box?

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