Comments on: Interesting New VMware Storage Product http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/ The weblog of an IT pro specializing in virtualization, storage, and servers Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:13:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: DannyW http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-43367 DannyW Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:34:10 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-43367 Hi! Paul, Were you able to get the DS3200 to work with VMotion and DRS? If so how did you set it up? Thanks! Hi! Paul,

Were you able to get the DS3200 to work with VMotion and DRS? If so how did you set it up?

Thanks!

]]> By: PaulM http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-41156 PaulM Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:59:26 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-41156 Hi all, I've never posted before but have found the site an invaluable tool for technical issues, and just for passing the hours. I have been asked to install ESX 3.5 into a new cluster (only two ESX hosts at initial build). The customer requires VMotion and DRS but I have only jsut been involved in the project and the kit has already been ordered. The problem I have is that the storage for the system is the IBM DS3200 which will be configured with redundant SAS HBA's to both ESX hosts, and to a third Windows server. I have always worked on the basis that VMware requires shared network storage and either NFS, iSCSI or FCP to leverage the benfits of DRS and Vmotion, but upon digging further, am beginning to doubt this. IBM have a document that suggests that the DS3200 is now certified by VMware for use in a Vmotion enabled VI3 cluster since ESX 3.5.1. Any thoughts on this? Paul Hi all,

I’ve never posted before but have found the site an invaluable tool for technical issues, and just for passing the hours.

I have been asked to install ESX 3.5 into a new cluster (only two ESX hosts at initial build). The customer requires VMotion and DRS but I have only jsut been involved in the project and the kit has already been ordered.

The problem I have is that the storage for the system is the IBM DS3200 which will be configured with redundant SAS HBA’s to both ESX hosts, and to a third Windows server.

I have always worked on the basis that VMware requires shared network storage and either NFS, iSCSI or FCP to leverage the benfits of DRS and Vmotion, but upon digging further, am beginning to doubt this.

IBM have a document that suggests that the DS3200 is now certified by VMware for use in a Vmotion enabled VI3 cluster since ESX 3.5.1.

Any thoughts on this?

Paul

]]> By: slowe http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-33393 slowe Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:51:25 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-33393 Well, John, I'd be surprised if you didn't agree with Dan, but you did at least recognize that some customers have already invested in DAS. That's better than I can say for some vendors... Well, John, I’d be surprised if you didn’t agree with Dan, but you did at least recognize that some customers have already invested in DAS. That’s better than I can say for some vendors…

]]> By: John Spiers http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-33392 John Spiers Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:52:47 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-33392 I'll have to chime in one more time. I’ll have to agree with Dan here. The benefits of having all your storage out on a SAN, all centrally managed, are numerous. Booting from the SAN takes it one step further, eliminating the need to manage local disks in your servers all together. This is why LeftHand sells complete IPSANs, and has 100s of customers booting off them as well. This being said, there are some customers that may not want to invest in a SAN, or may have already invested in Direct Attached Storage. These customers could benefit from creating a SAN out of their current islands of storage attached to servers. The good news with LeftHand is that you can have it either way or both. As far as NFS goes, it’s a valid point in some respects, but it opens up a whole new can of worms, including performance, open file security issues, metadata locking, and the requirement for an expensive Distributed File System if you want to virtualize, cluster and load balancing across storage systems like LeftHand does. It also requires parallel extensions for NFSv4, which are not cooked yet. Please, don’t get me started on NFS. John I’ll have to chime in one more time. I’ll have to agree with Dan here. The benefits of having all your storage out on a SAN, all centrally managed, are numerous. Booting from the SAN takes it one step further, eliminating the need to manage local disks in your servers all together. This is why LeftHand sells complete IPSANs, and has 100s of customers booting off them as well.

This being said, there are some customers that may not want to invest in a SAN, or may have already invested in Direct Attached Storage. These customers could benefit from creating a SAN out of their current islands of storage attached to servers.

The good news with LeftHand is that you can have it either way or both.

As far as NFS goes, it’s a valid point in some respects, but it opens up a whole new can of worms, including performance, open file security issues, metadata locking, and the requirement for an expensive Distributed File System if you want to virtualize, cluster and load balancing across storage systems like LeftHand does. It also requires parallel extensions for NFSv4, which are not cooked yet. Please, don’t get me started on NFS.

John

]]> By: slowe http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-33278 slowe Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:54:05 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-33278 John Spiers, Thanks for the response. I plan to stop by and talk to LeftHand Networks while I'm here in San Francisco at VMworld 2007. It would be great to be able to look at some of those numbers and discuss implementation details. Dan, VMware on NFS is getting lots and lots of attention these days, so you're not alone in liking NFS, although I think some people may take exception with your choice of names. :-) Of course, with the public announcement of ESX 3i this morning at VMworld Partner Day, the move toward no local storage will definitely pick up steam. John Spiers,

Thanks for the response. I plan to stop by and talk to LeftHand Networks while I’m here in San Francisco at VMworld 2007. It would be great to be able to look at some of those numbers and discuss implementation details.

Dan,

VMware on NFS is getting lots and lots of attention these days, so you’re not alone in liking NFS, although I think some people may take exception with your choice of names. :-)

Of course, with the public announcement of ESX 3i this morning at VMworld Partner Day, the move toward no local storage will definitely pick up steam.

]]> By: Dan http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-33277 Dan Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:24:12 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-33277 Should the ESX Servers even have local storage, or should they boot from SAN? I Say NO ESX virtualization hardware appliance using flash storage boot device is the right direction. Just add Power, Network and Storage. DanFS Direct Attached NFS is my prediction for Storage. Simple. No VMFS, no ISCSI, no FC, no Problems... 10Gb DanFS! Should the ESX Servers even have local storage, or should they boot from SAN?

I Say NO

ESX virtualization hardware appliance using flash storage boot device is the right direction.

Just add Power, Network and Storage.

DanFS Direct Attached NFS is my prediction for Storage. Simple. No VMFS, no ISCSI, no FC, no Problems… 10Gb DanFS!

]]> By: John Spiers http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/comment-page-1/#comment-33276 John Spiers Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:48:15 +0000 http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/09/10/interesting-new-vmware-storage-product/#comment-33276 This is an interesting announcement, and it brings up additional questions that haven’t yet been answered (Will this SAN allow for the use of VMware technologies such as VMotion, DRS, or HA? Yes, LeftHand's Virtual appliance works with VMotion, DRS & HA. What happens to the SAN when a member host whose local storage is being used in the SAN fails? If you have LeftHand’s VSA running on more than one physical server, you can cluster & virtualize the local storage together from any number of servers and run Network RAID on the iSCSI volumes across those servers. If any server fails the remaining servers still have access to the SAN, and all volumes are still on-line (similar to a disk failing in a RAID set), and the failed server’s disk can be incrementally rebuilt (outage with data intact), or completely rebuilt (hard failure of server and disks) from the other servers. VSA appliances can also be moved with VMotion and provide seamless failover and failback with DRS & HA. How will the SAN maintain redundancy and data consistency in such situations? LeftHand’s Virtual Storage Appliance is based on the SAN/iQ software, which provides redundancy with Network RAID across servers and guarantees data consistency using a 3-phase commit protocol across servers. How will the performance of this solution compare to a dedicated SAN? How does the pricing of this solution compare to a dedicated SAN?) Performance depends on the type of server and its internal disk system, i.e. CPU, memory, drive type, controller, etc. LeftHand has performance metrics for a variety of servers and disk systems that we’ve ran this on and it’s very impressive. Pricing is less than a complete LeftHand SAN (HW+SW) because you’re not buying the hardware. John This is an interesting announcement, and it brings up additional questions that haven’t yet been answered (Will this SAN allow for the use of VMware technologies such as VMotion, DRS, or HA?

Yes, LeftHand’s Virtual appliance works with VMotion, DRS & HA.

What happens to the SAN when a member host whose local storage is being used in the SAN fails?

If you have LeftHand’s VSA running on more than one physical server, you can cluster & virtualize the local storage together from any number of servers and run Network RAID on the iSCSI volumes across those servers. If any server fails the remaining servers still have access to the SAN, and all volumes are still on-line (similar to a disk failing in a RAID set), and the failed server’s disk can be incrementally rebuilt (outage with data intact), or completely rebuilt (hard failure of server and disks) from the other servers. VSA appliances can also be moved with VMotion and provide seamless failover and failback with DRS & HA.

How will the SAN maintain redundancy and data consistency in such situations?

LeftHand’s Virtual Storage Appliance is based on the SAN/iQ software, which provides redundancy with Network RAID across servers and guarantees data consistency using a 3-phase commit protocol across servers.

How will the performance of this solution compare to a dedicated SAN? How does the pricing of this solution compare to a dedicated SAN?)

Performance depends on the type of server and its internal disk system, i.e. CPU, memory, drive type, controller, etc. LeftHand has performance metrics for a variety of servers and disk systems that we’ve ran this on and it’s very impressive. Pricing is less than a complete LeftHand SAN (HW+SW) because you’re not buying the hardware.

John

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